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Ö:W:

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H.PL. I don't know him very well. He did at one stage work for us. I'm not sure whether he was in RS. I think at one stage he was RS, I'm not sure. But anyway, he definitely was involved in the conservative student group that we were sponsoring at that time. And I think at some stage he then had to like complete his service or whatever and he worked in Pretoria. He actually worked as an analyst or on the desk or something. At a later stage he went off and he became involved in politics, because I think he was naturally quite conservative and became involved with Inkatha, the Inkatha Freedom Party. And all I know about him is what I read about him: he was involved in more or less their paramilitary operations and he is now a senator in the Parliament for IFP.

D:

Have you, sorry, been involved in any operation that he has been involved in?

W:

I was the boss of...I think there was a thing called 'the student moderate society' and I believe he was involved then, but then, you know I was by that time I mean I was the head of the whole section. There were at every university, five, ten people. I mean, there were operations running, and I

I believe he was involved in one of those operations, but he wasn't directly involved with me.

D:

Do you know if he is acquainted to, for instance, Eugene de Kock?

W:

Yes. I understand, look...there, you know, I don't know, I understand that because he was very much involved. The idea, at one stage just after 1990 in South Africa was that some people, like, but some others were saying that the only way that the IFP could get their true position that they should have in South Africa was to also have an armed capability in the same way that the ANC had and so on. So there was quite an attempt at that time to build up their armed capability and I believe that at that timeand de Kock had some connections.

Ö:

Which time are you talking about?

W:

Post-1990.

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