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Sida:Pol-1997-03-04 HBL17858-00 Dirk Johanes Coetzee.pdf/10

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with the money of the IUF? How do you do that now? Whose money is it? What can you claim? But what we did, we compiled a budget also. You know as if this organisation of Craig Williamson did exist here, as if it was a valid organisation, so that we could claim and say: "Well this is what the budget allowed us of the IUEF, and this is what we did with it" you understand. So basically we followed, I think this is what I want to stress, we followed the instructions as if it was a subsidiary organisation of the IEUF. You know if a man had to go for instance to a place we'd say: "Go and rent a car and pay for it out of this money, and the hotels when you stay when you go there, you stay on this money" and so on and so on and so on. But if they say you can get a present, we're not giving it to you. So basically it was an honest effort with Treasury to work out how are we going to do this in a proper legalistic fashion. I've mentioned the two aspects. There were many cases, you must please realise I'm just taking one or two, but many cases like that you have throughout the length and breadth of South Africa. I've mentioned that I saw Mister Craig Williamson once during this period in Belgium. I didn't go to Switzerland at this stage and so on. And to discuss with him you know our views. The problem was: he didn't get very much feedback from us. We didn't have the capacity to, like you have with your people in South Africa, to give him instructions or say: "You must do this or do that or do that. Because we could make contact with him perhaps once in six months and so on. Now what I again want to stress that in this process he really got to know very many people throughout the world of different categories, basically on a political level. Very little, very little on a university and academic level. Very little. As far as I'm concerned, the reports that I've seen, it was ninety per cent concerned purely political issues that they were dealing with. That's why we became suspicious and said: "This is a big scam. This is not concerned with education at all, it's concerned with intelligence gathering.