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his father. His father was a very prominent Johannesburg businessman. They were concerned with tyres: motor-car tyres. It was called 'Williamson & Patterson'. Very very famous. I think they still exist. I'm not sure, but his father died. When he was working in Switzerland his father died and I knew that he came back in secret to attend his father's funeral and we took him over the border at night to go and see his mother here and so on. But I knew his father. This is how I got...became associated with him. At that stage, at the University of the Witwatersrand, there was an organisation called NUSAS: National Union of South African Students. National Union of South African Students. It was a... not a communist organisation, but it was very anti the government of that stage. The organisation itself was a student organisation, for students and it had very many categories of political groupings within this organisation: very left people, very...you know this is very difficult definitions. Very left people, very liberal people, conservative people and so on, but basically very opposed to the then policies of the South African government. So obviously the police or the security police also had to monitor them, their activities. And at that stage I met Mister Williamson and I...well we decided that he would try and infiltrate into this organisation. Because he was a student there he could join, he was entitled to join, according to the regulations, which he did. Now he was a very capable man as far as I am concerned, and it wasn't very long before he was one of the leaders at this university of this particular student organisation. To the extent that eventually I think he was either the Witwatersrand leader of the organisation: chairman or the vice-chairman, I don't know exactly that. But he was then transferred to Cape Town, not by the police, but by this student organisation, to the headquarters of NUSAS or the National Union of South Africa was in Cape Town. He was transferred there and he became a fulltime worker as far as I'm concerned, for NUSAS. In the meantime the police in Cape Town, they had a flat where they met him regularly and got information from him and so on and I still saw these reports coming through. But obviously NUSAS, or this organisation, also had. like all political organisations, leaks or tentacles to very many organisations, other organisations. And in that way he was a very valuable position that he had there. It must have been a year or two after he had started...commenced, working...(the telephone rings). All right. I'm sorry for the telephone call. He was concerned at that stage in the National Union of South African Students, with the position of a link or a courier or a messenger between their headquarters and the organisation