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HBL BI 17862
1
This is the record of the interrogation ofHoro
H812684 HBG 16609 HBI 17836
The interrogation is being held on 28 October 1996,commencing at 15.30. The interrogation is being held on hc premises of the Swedish Embassy in Pretoria.
Leading the interrogation is Detective Superintendent Hans Ölvebro assisted by Chief Prosecutor Jan Danielsson.
The interrogation is being recorded on tape and will be held in English.
We have been told by a Swedish journalist that Ole Jensen has information with respect to the reason for our visit here in the course of our investigation.
Ö = Ölvebro
D = Danielsson
J = Jensen
Ö: Well, Mister Jensen, I would be glad if you can tell us a bit about your background here in South Africa. A brief one please.
J: Where do you want me to start?
Ö: I don't know if you are born down here but...
J:
Ö:
J:Hall
HBL BI 17862
1
This is the record of the interrogation ofHoro
H812684 HBG 16609 HBI 17836
The interrogation is being held on 28 October 1996,commencing at 15.30. The interrogation is being held on hc premises of the Swedish Embassy in Pretoria.
Leading the interrogation is Detective Superintendent Hans Ölvebro assisted by Chief Prosecutor Jan Danielsson.
The interrogation is being recorded on tape and will be held in English.
We have been told by a Swedish journalist that Ole Jensen has information with respect to the reason for our visit here in the course of our investigation.
Ö = Ölvebro
D = Danielsson
J = Jensen
Ö: Well, Mister Jensen, I would be glad if you can tell us a bit about your background here in South Africa. A brief one please.
J: Where do you want me to start?
Ö: I don't know if you are born down here but...
J:
Ö:
J:Hall
io
J:Ö:
In what year was it? Was it before the killing of Olof Palme or after?
J:Ö:
No. Longreach. I mean did the company...
J:
Longreach. No it was before. It was established before.
D:
Well I think that there is some confusion here. You mentioned that the company that later on will be named Longreach, started in the beginning of '84.
J:
Yeah. That was only just for a few months in '84 when we were operating from the 49th floor of the Carlton Centre. Then we moved out to Cedar Avenue in Bryanston under the big thatch there which we found then and that was when Longreach was really established. We had a temporary...
D:
Was it then called Longreach?
J:
Yeah, then it became Longreach and it was called officially Longreach and we had...
D:
And when was that?
That was the beginning of '84, probably about May.
D:
But the name, but the name Longreach was attached to the project in '84.
J:
Yeah.
D:
Are you sure of that? Or you...can you be mixing years? You mentioned before that the project started long before the name Longreach was introduced.
J:
Yeah that was...that was the... That was... I'm trying to think of the name of ...you know. It started...it was going for a while and then Longreach, the name Longreach was introduced a few months later but about three or four months after that I think. When that junk came in.
D.J:
Yeah.
io
J:Ö:
In what year was it? Was it before the killing of Olof Palme or after?
J:Ö:
No. Longreach. I mean did the company...
J:
Longreach. No it was before. It was established before.
D:
Well I think that there is some confusion here. You mentioned that the company that later on will be named Longreach, started in the beginning of '84.
J:
Yeah. That was only just for a few months in '84 when we were operating from the 49th floor of the Carlton Centre. Then we moved out to Cedar Avenue in Bryanston under the big thatch there which we found then and that was when Longreach was really established. We had a temporary...
D:
Was it then called Longreach?
J:
Yeah, then it became Longreach and it was called officially Longreach and we had...
D:
And when was that?
That was the beginning of '84, probably about May.
D:
But the name, but the name Longreach was attached to the project in '84.
J:
Yeah.
D:
Are you sure of that? Or you...can you be mixing years? You mentioned before that the project started long before the name Longreach was introduced.
J:
Yeah that was...that was the... That was... I'm trying to think of the name of ...you know. It started...it was going for a while and then Longreach, the name Longreach was introduced a few months later but about three or four months after that I think. When that junk came in.
D.J:
Yeah.
D:
What was the aim with that project?
J:D:
But that should have been '85 then.
J:D:
it '84 or '85 or '86 when the
But when the project...what w it...I don't understand. project started when you were in it and set it up yourself?
J:
I'm sure it was '84.
D:
84.
J:
Yeah.
D:
Okay. And the name Longreach was attached to it a few months later?
J:
A few months later, yeah.
D:
Okay.
Ö:J:Ö:J:
D:D:J:D:
Is that your impression?
D:
What was the aim with that project?
J:D:
But that should have been '85 then.
J:D:
it '84 or '85 or '86 when the
But when the project...what w it...I don't understand. project started when you were in it and set it up yourself?
J:
I'm sure it was '84.
D:
84.
J:
Yeah.
D:
Okay. And the name Longreach was attached to it a few months later?
J:
A few months later, yeah.
D:
Okay.
Ö:J:Ö:J:
D:D:J:D:
Is that your impression?
J:
That's my impression, yeah.
Do you know that or is it your impression?
J:D:J:
Right.
D:
But you wouldn't know that.
J:
I wouldn't know about that.
D:
And yet you say you were one of the establishers.J:
'85. I must have my years mixed up. I've got...I've diarised it. (inaudible)
D:
Can you speak a little louder please?
J:
Yeah I know I say I have diarised, I have got a lot of notes at home, dates and things like that but I don't, you know I say '84 I could have had it mixed up. Maybe I was in Denmark at that stage, you know. So '84 I could say could have been mixed up with '86 like we said earlier.
D:
Yes. But you have that in your diaries.
J:
I have dates, yes.
D:
It's a pity you didn't bring them.
Ö:
Maybe we can have a look in them.
J:
Oh I think I'll have a few documents that you can have a look at.
Ö:
We'll have to arrange that after the...
J:
That's my impression, yeah.
Do you know that or is it your impression?
J:D:J:
Right.
D:
But you wouldn't know that.
J:
I wouldn't know about that.
D:
And yet you say you were one of the establishers.J:
'85. I must have my years mixed up. I've got...I've diarised it. (inaudible)
D:
Can you speak a little louder please?
J:
Yeah I know I say I have diarised, I have got a lot of notes at home, dates and things like that but I don't, you know I say '84 I could have had it mixed up. Maybe I was in Denmark at that stage, you know. So '84 I could say could have been mixed up with '86 like we said earlier.
D:
Yes. But you have that in your diaries.
J:
I have dates, yes.
D:
It's a pity you didn't bring them.
Ö:
Maybe we can have a look in them.
J:
Oh I think I'll have a few documents that you can have a look at.
Ö:
We'll have to arrange that after the...
D:J:16609
D:
But as far as you yourself are concerned, you were doing business in Longreach and nothing else.
J:
Nothing else, no.
D:
How did it...?
J:D:
I didn't hear you.
J:D:
No intelligence work or something?
J:
No.
Ö:
When did you leave Longreach then?
J:
I think it must have been about the end of '96. Sorry: '86.
D:
And for what reason?
J:
D:J:16609
D:
But as far as you yourself are concerned, you were doing business in Longreach and nothing else.
J:
Nothing else, no.
D:
How did it...?
J:D:
I didn't hear you.
J:D:
No intelligence work or something?
J:
No.
Ö:
When did you leave Longreach then?
J:
I think it must have been about the end of '96. Sorry: '86.
D:
And for what reason?
J:
D: . If I assume that Longreach was not only a cover or a front company, but that they actually
did some planning on the murder of Olof Palme, who would then have been involved in that planning? Was there an inner circle, so to speak, that could do it?1
D:D:D:
Was he involved in any sense?
More
J:
He wasn't involved in Longreach at all.
D:
But you know him?
J:
I know them both.
• D:
But you know him?
J:
Yeah.
D:
Could he have fit in to such a picture?
J:
No.
D:
Why not?
J:
He's not the type to do that kind of thing. Even on the planning stages I think he would abhor the idea. If somebody had come to me and said: "Look, we're going to knock off Olof Palme", I probably could have played along for a while you know until he said "right okay" you know. But I definitely then would have passed the information on.
D:
This stopped a long time ago. This one is working. How come?
Ö:
(inaudible) Do you have any other questions?
D:J:
Right.
D: . If I assume that Longreach was not only a cover or a front company, but that they actually
did some planning on the murder of Olof Palme, who would then have been involved in that planning? Was there an inner circle, so to speak, that could do it?1
D:D:D:
Was he involved in any sense?
More
J:
He wasn't involved in Longreach at all.
D:
But you know him?
J:
I know them both.
• D:
But you know him?
J:
Yeah.
D:
Could he have fit in to such a picture?
J:
No.
D:
Why not?
J:
He's not the type to do that kind of thing. Even on the planning stages I think he would abhor the idea. If somebody had come to me and said: "Look, we're going to knock off Olof Palme", I probably could have played along for a while you know until he said "right okay" you know. But I definitely then would have passed the information on.
D:
This stopped a long time ago. This one is working. How come?
Ö:
(inaudible) Do you have any other questions?
D:J:
Right.
D:
Neither of them could possibly have committed the murder.
J:
Neither of them would.
D:
Pardon?
Neither of them would.
D:
No, they couldn't...they hadn't.
J:
No.
D:
Well if they had planned it, if we assume that, they must have had help from some sort.
Yes, most definitely. Yes.
D:
Why would that help be to be found?
J:
I don't know. If it had to come from that source I think the only help will have been the Mafia.
D:
That's your guess.
That's my guess. Yes. That's my gut feeling.
D:
And through whom then?D
Is he Mafia?
J:
Definitely.
D:
Is there anything else that you could tell us that you think could be of interest to us?
I can't think of anything else. There's a long shot: the weapons that we sent over toOne of them was a Magnum 357 and numbers on those could be traced, but then you have to find the weapon
as well.
D:
How do you...
Maybe that could be found. I bought the weapons. I purchased the weapons.
D:
How do you know that there was sold a Magnum 357?
D:
Neither of them could possibly have committed the murder.
J:
Neither of them would.
D:
Pardon?
Neither of them would.
D:
No, they couldn't...they hadn't.
J:
No.
D:
Well if they had planned it, if we assume that, they must have had help from some sort.
Yes, most definitely. Yes.
D:
Why would that help be to be found?
J:
I don't know. If it had to come from that source I think the only help will have been the Mafia.
D:
That's your guess.
That's my guess. Yes. That's my gut feeling.
D:
And through whom then?D
Is he Mafia?
J:
Definitely.
D:
Is there anything else that you could tell us that you think could be of interest to us?
I can't think of anything else. There's a long shot: the weapons that we sent over toOne of them was a Magnum 357 and numbers on those could be traced, but then you have to find the weapon
as well.
D:
How do you...
Maybe that could be found. I bought the weapons. I purchased the weapons.
D:
How do you know that there was sold a Magnum 357?
J:
I purchased it.
D:
The Magnum. Whose weapon was it? Do you know that?
J:D:
But where did it come from?
J:
It came from here.
D:
Well, someone must have handed it over.
J:
No. I bought, I purchased a consignment of weapons here in South Africafrom a sports shop here, a gun shop here. That purchase order should still be available for scrutinising to pick up. They must still have the numbers on those. Do you have this?
D:
Do you know who the purchaser was?
J:
The company that sold me the weapons was a company Field and Stream in Johannesburg.
D:
We can write that down please, when we are finished.
J:
Okay.
Ö:
Do you want us to play the tape for you?
J:
No, it's okay.
Ö:
You know what you have said. In that case we conclude the interrogation at 16.16.
END OF INTERROGATION
analen
J:
I purchased it.
D:
The Magnum. Whose weapon was it? Do you know that?
J:D:
But where did it come from?
J:
It came from here.
D:
Well, someone must have handed it over.
J:
No. I bought, I purchased a consignment of weapons here in South Africafrom a sports shop here, a gun shop here. That purchase order should still be available for scrutinising to pick up. They must still have the numbers on those. Do you have this?
D:
Do you know who the purchaser was?
J:
The company that sold me the weapons was a company Field and Stream in Johannesburg.
D:
We can write that down please, when we are finished.
J:
Okay.
Ö:
Do you want us to play the tape for you?
J:
No, it's okay.
Ö:
You know what you have said. In that case we conclude the interrogation at 16.16.
END OF INTERROGATION
analen
HBL 1786 RB
Heino
PROTOKOLL över förhör med Ole Jensen,Förhöret hållet onsdagen den 30 oktober 1996 kl 15.20-15.50 på svenska ambassaden i Pretoria. Förhörsledare: Krkom Hans Ölvebro med cá Jan Danielsson närvarande.
Jensen hörs kompletterande och han överlämnar i samband med förhöret ett antal handlingar, vilka förtecknas.
Jensen uppger att han efter att ha tittat i sin dagbok och bland handlingar kommit fram till att Longreach bildades april-maj 1986 inte som han uppgav vid förhöret i måndags 1984.
Vid kontroll i sina dagböcker har han inte fasställa vilket datum som han och Craig Williamson talade om mordet på Olof Palme första gången( hänvisning till måndagsförhöret).
Vid dagens förhör får Jensen komentera den lista över namn som påstås vara involverade i Longreach (). Jensen igenkänner samtliga namn utom två, vilka har markerats till vänster om namnen. Beträffande Magnus Malan, F. W. de Klerk, P. W. Botha och PIK Botha är det välkända namn för Jensen men såvitt han känner till hade ingen av dessa med Longreach att göra.
Jensen önskar ej ta del av protokollet
Stockholm den 18 november 1986
Handiudhee
Hans Ölvebro
HBL 1786 RB
Heino
PROTOKOLL över förhör med Ole Jensen,Förhöret hållet onsdagen den 30 oktober 1996 kl 15.20-15.50 på svenska ambassaden i Pretoria. Förhörsledare: Krkom Hans Ölvebro med cá Jan Danielsson närvarande.
Jensen hörs kompletterande och han överlämnar i samband med förhöret ett antal handlingar, vilka förtecknas.
Jensen uppger att han efter att ha tittat i sin dagbok och bland handlingar kommit fram till att Longreach bildades april-maj 1986 inte som han uppgav vid förhöret i måndags 1984.
Vid kontroll i sina dagböcker har han inte fasställa vilket datum som han och Craig Williamson talade om mordet på Olof Palme första gången( hänvisning till måndagsförhöret).
Vid dagens förhör får Jensen komentera den lista över namn som påstås vara involverade i Longreach (). Jensen igenkänner samtliga namn utom två, vilka har markerats till vänster om namnen. Beträffande Magnus Malan, F. W. de Klerk, P. W. Botha och PIK Botha är det välkända namn för Jensen men såvitt han känner till hade ingen av dessa med Longreach att göra.
Jensen önskar ej ta del av protokollet
Stockholm den 18 november 1986
Handiudhee
Hans Ölvebro
THE LONGREACH-PALME OPERATION
INTELLIGENCE REPORT
NAMES OF PERSONS INVOLVED WITH LONGREACH:
MARK ASMUSSEN PAUL ASMUSSEN V OLLIE JENSEN MCHAEL IRWIN
LINDA VAN NIEKERK & POLLA DE BEER
PHILIP POWELL CHRIS WALLER LOUIS (JACK) VAN NIEKERK ANTHONY (ANT) WHITE. RIAAN STANDER MIKE MITEN HENRY STRYDOM CRAIG WILLIAMSON JOHN LAGARIQUE (DECEASED) JEAN DEBLE LEANIE PRINSLOO MKE (GOLLIE) RICHARDS JOHN ADAMS MARIO RICCI DAVD GORFIL CÒN LEECH VIC MCPHEARSON TOLLETJIE BOTHA FERDI VAN WYK MAGNUS MALAN FW DE KLERK
PW BOTHA • PIK BOTHA
1
FOREIGN DOMICILIUM (1985-1980
LONGREACH LIMITED REG.NO. 34518 BEL ROYAL HOUSE, HIL GROVE STREET ST HELIER JERSEY CHANNEL ISLANDS TEL. 0534 26506 TELEX 4192088 INTRAD G TELEFAX 0534 20625
THE LONGREACH-PALME OPERATION
INTELLIGENCE REPORT
NAMES OF PERSONS INVOLVED WITH LONGREACH:
MARK ASMUSSEN PAUL ASMUSSEN V OLLIE JENSEN MCHAEL IRWIN
LINDA VAN NIEKERK & POLLA DE BEER
PHILIP POWELL CHRIS WALLER LOUIS (JACK) VAN NIEKERK ANTHONY (ANT) WHITE. RIAAN STANDER MIKE MITEN HENRY STRYDOM CRAIG WILLIAMSON JOHN LAGARIQUE (DECEASED) JEAN DEBLE LEANIE PRINSLOO MKE (GOLLIE) RICHARDS JOHN ADAMS MARIO RICCI DAVD GORFIL CÒN LEECH VIC MCPHEARSON TOLLETJIE BOTHA FERDI VAN WYK MAGNUS MALAN FW DE KLERK
PW BOTHA • PIK BOTHA
1
FOREIGN DOMICILIUM (1985-1980
LONGREACH LIMITED REG.NO. 34518 BEL ROYAL HOUSE, HIL GROVE STREET ST HELIER JERSEY CHANNEL ISLANDS TEL. 0534 26506 TELEX 4192088 INTRAD G TELEFAX 0534 20625
Ö:J:Ö:
J:Ö:J:Ö:
J:Ö:J:
Ö:J:Ö:J:Ö:
Ö:J:Ö:
J:Ö:J:Ö:
J:Ö:J:
Ö:J:Ö:J:Ö:
Ö:
J:Ö:J:Ö:J:
Ö:J:17837 Ö:J:7830
Ö:J:Ö:J:Ö:J:
Ö:J:
Ö:
J:Ö:J:Ö:J:
Ö:J:17837 Ö:J:7830
Ö:J:Ö:J:Ö:J:
Ö:J:
Ö:J:Ö:% 일4111
MFC
M.FL
Ö:J:Ö:J:Ö:
Maybe you'll remember later.
J:
I'll come back to it later, yeah.
Ö:J:
No.
Ö:
I think I want you to speak a bit louder because...
J:
I'm sorry. No.
J:
...otherwise it will not go into the tape recorder. Do you have any question on this stage?
D:J:
Ö:J:Ö:% 일4111
MFC
M.FL
Ö:J:Ö:J:Ö:
Maybe you'll remember later.
J:
I'll come back to it later, yeah.
Ö:J:
No.
Ö:
I think I want you to speak a bit louder because...
J:
I'm sorry. No.
J:
...otherwise it will not go into the tape recorder. Do you have any question on this stage?
D:J:
Zloni D:"TID:J:
D:J:D:
And when did you meet with Craig Williamson?
J:
About the same year. A few months later.
D:
Wasn't he in Europe then?
J:
No. He'd just, I think he'd just come back.
D:
Well, he didn't come back until 1980.
1980. I must have got my dates wrong. I met with him...it was a few months later that I met him.
D:
Here in South Africa?
J:
Maybe he was here just for a visit, I don't know. Whether his whole cover was blown at that stage I don't know.
D:
That occurred in the beginning of 1980: when his cover was blown.
J:
Was it? Oh. Because I met very briefly with him you know. Could it have been '80?
D:
Zloni D:"TID:J:
D:J:D:
And when did you meet with Craig Williamson?
J:
About the same year. A few months later.
D:
Wasn't he in Europe then?
J:
No. He'd just, I think he'd just come back.
D:
Well, he didn't come back until 1980.
1980. I must have got my dates wrong. I met with him...it was a few months later that I met him.
D:
Here in South Africa?
J:
Maybe he was here just for a visit, I don't know. Whether his whole cover was blown at that stage I don't know.
D:
That occurred in the beginning of 1980: when his cover was blown.
J:
Was it? Oh. Because I met very briefly with him you know. Could it have been '80?
D:
D:J:D:
SSJ:D:
Was there any continuation then?
J:D:J:Ö:J:D:J:
D:J:D:
SSJ:D:
Was there any continuation then?
J:D:J:Ö:J:D:J:
D:J:D:J:D:J:D:J:D:J:D:J:D:D:J:D:
D:J:D:J:D:J:D:J:D:J:D:J:D:D:J:D:
J:
D:J:D:
Okay then I didn't understand what you answered to the question. Have you ever been to Sweden?
J:
I've only been across the Sound, that's all.
D:
To Helsingør...Helsingborg.
Helsingborg, yeah.
D:
You have not been in Stockholm?
J:
No.
D:
I didn't...well, let me put it like this: during the years '85 '86, where were you then?
J:
'85 '86 I think was in Denmark then.
D:
All the time?
J:
Yeah '86. I'm trying to think. No I wasn't there all the time because I was always... there was always this fluctuation. I was very... There were years of being very unsettled and I was very much...very much here and very much in Denmark, so... I know that...
Ö:
Okay, please.D:
Okay I think we'll come back to that.
Ö:
Yeah, then I was just going to ask you about any information...any information you have about the assassination of Mister Palme.
J:
D:J:D:
Okay then I didn't understand what you answered to the question. Have you ever been to Sweden?
J:
I've only been across the Sound, that's all.
D:
To Helsingør...Helsingborg.
Helsingborg, yeah.
D:
You have not been in Stockholm?
J:
No.
D:
I didn't...well, let me put it like this: during the years '85 '86, where were you then?
J:
'85 '86 I think was in Denmark then.
D:
All the time?
J:
Yeah '86. I'm trying to think. No I wasn't there all the time because I was always... there was always this fluctuation. I was very... There were years of being very unsettled and I was very much...very much here and very much in Denmark, so... I know that...
Ö:
Okay, please.D:
Okay I think we'll come back to that.
Ö:
Yeah, then I was just going to ask you about any information...any information you have about the assassination of Mister Palme.
J:
About the actual assassination I have nothing. I've heard nothing about it. I didn't even know that there was a reward out for it. So it was...
Ö:
So you never heard... You mentioned/that you...
J:
That was the only time that we really....you know I heard of the assassination of course, because it was...
Ö:
You just happened...
J:Ö:J:Ö:J:Ö:
When you were engaged of...in the Longreach or the company before Longreach, can you tell us about other persons who was engaged in this company?
J:
You mean Longreach? In setting up Longreach?
Yeah.
J:
183 17836
16609 17830
17837
Ö:
J:
About the actual assassination I have nothing. I've heard nothing about it. I didn't even know that there was a reward out for it. So it was...
Ö:
So you never heard... You mentioned/that you...
J:
That was the only time that we really....you know I heard of the assassination of course, because it was...
Ö:
You just happened...
J:Ö:J:Ö:J:Ö:
When you were engaged of...in the Longreach or the company before Longreach, can you tell us about other persons who was engaged in this company?
J:
You mean Longreach? In setting up Longreach?
Yeah.
J:
183 17836
16609 17830
17837
Ö:
