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D: Anything else in the surrondings that you could remember?

K: There was a lot of singing of the young blacks that were due to be trained, but nothing that would have impaired my hearing. There was no liqour. I don't use liqour 24 hours before I either start training or.) go into operations. And he does not drink at all. So it is not a matter of that, he is a total abstainee, he doesn't use any alcohol at all.

D: Was it a long or short conversation?

K: It was a general conversation, it sort of flowed, if I'm not mistaken I was referring to some of our operations in Swaziland, and because what I was trying to do was to compare the international standards of operations. I actually wanted to see .. will we also be able to operate in Europe, shoot at order come. And I had no doubt that we could, except for certain countries. You would have to be more carefUL and in certain countries I would not operate at all.

D: When you talked todid you talk to him about this matter for an hour or twenty minutes or several hours? And when did you start and when did you stop?

K: It came in general conversation and it lasted about five, six minutes, it was more a reference and than a discussion of reference. I personally think that what he did here was do give me his CV. He was not known to me as an operator,I think he was giving me his basic C.V. of his own back ground, his own knowledge to inspire me, to trust me.

D: I ask again. Can you remember how long this conversation lasted? Did you talk to him 5 minutes, 20 minutes, several hours.

K: Look, the whole of the conversation, the general conversation, could have been up to half an hour to three quarters of an hour. That is if my recollection serves med correct.

Concerning the Palme thing, which was a passing because it didn't basically interest me... to put it that way, I had no compassion for Sweden at that time because of their stance against the South African government. Let's not make any mistake about that. But it did interest me from the point of view is that this jelous confirmation of theside.

D: Was anyone else present?