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Craig Williamson: power to do whatever the President wanted them to do, so in terms of apartheid legislation it was not a popular organisation...body.

I worked there until the end of 1990-1991.

And I was a member of the President's Council and a businessman.

I spent some of my time also doing some political work: I was on the National Party defence committee; I was very close with General Malan, and on ... specifically on the Mozambique issue.

And then later on Angola.

I had certain political contacts that ... that I ... I was used to carry out, which ...because I was, well I suppose capable of doing it, but also it was often useful to have somebody that was less official: he was a President's Councillor, but it wasn't as official as having, say, an official from the government or something doing it, so I could go and talk to people, take messages, bring messages back.

And I enjoyed doing that. I enjoyed politics.

In ... sorry, during this time we had another election because President Botha had a stroke, and you know he was moved out and then, just very briefly, just for interest's sake, just to tell you that basically what was happening in South Africa was that up until President Botha's stroke, the securocrats - the security establishment - were running South Africa.

I was working, I was a securocrat, there's no way I can get away from that, that's what I was, it's ... I've been for all the years.

But I was one of the securocrats who believed that we were ... our job was to give the politicians time to solve the political problem, not to solve the political problem with military force: that was my difference with some of my colleagues.

But in 1989, also in 1989 I was the only National Party politician, I'll put my head on a block, who wrote in an official election pamphlet: 'Vote for me...' because I then stood in Niger, the very famous, where John Vorster, the ex-president/prime minister, a very famous constituency.

And I stood against the Conservative Party.

In the '87 election I'd stood against the left, the left Liberal Party.

In this election I stood against the Conservatives.

And I was the only politician in that election who wrote in an official publication and said:

'Vote for me, vote for the National Party because you can trust us to negotiate with the ANC on your behalf.'

Well, I mean, the National Party nearly had a heart attack. Said

"What am I saying? Talking about negotiating with the ANC before an election?" I said "but we are negotiating with the ANC."
"Yes, but you mustn't tell the voters that."

So, anyway, I did.

So I...I was then re-appointed to the President's Council, because obviously I didn't win Niger in a conservative area. Saying we're going to negotiate with the ANC didn't go down too well.

But I was one of two National Party candidates in that entire election that increased the percentage of the National Party vote.

The National Party did very badly in the 1989 election. But in my constituency we increased our percentage of the vote, so I said "well..." Anyway, I was re


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