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− | business concerns and so on, but in many cases we never knew exactly how there. | + | [[Johann Coetzee]]: business concerns and so on, but in many cases we never knew exactly how there. |
Another matter that we never solved was: when [[Craig Williamson]] came to South Africa, or Africa actually, and we could meet him, he gave us money in cash: brand new South African ten-Rand notes, brand new. | Another matter that we never solved was: when [[Craig Williamson]] came to South Africa, or Africa actually, and we could meet him, he gave us money in cash: brand new South African ten-Rand notes, brand new. | ||
Rad 18: | Rad 18: | ||
: "We must give ten thousand Rand to Mister Sam Nyoma's mother." | : "We must give ten thousand Rand to Mister Sam Nyoma's mother." | ||
− | You know they were also in contact with SWAPO in Namibia. | + | You know they were also in contact with [[SWAPO]] in [[Namibia]]. |
: "Go and give her this ten thousand Rand." | : "Go and give her this ten thousand Rand." | ||
− | Now it comes in cash or through this conduit that we don't know who deposited this in our account. We had the banks on our side: we eventually went to the senior people of the banks and said: | + | Now it comes in cash or through this conduit that we don't know who deposited this in our account. |
− | + | ||
+ | We had the banks on our side: we eventually went to the senior people of the banks and said: | ||
+ | : "But you must tell us where the money comes from." | ||
And they said, well they can't: it's overseas transfers, basically overseas transfers, we don't know. | And they said, well they can't: it's overseas transfers, basically overseas transfers, we don't know. | ||
Rad 30: | Rad 32: | ||
And we couldn't go and investigate and say: | And we couldn't go and investigate and say: | ||
− | : "It's the police, we're investigating" because then we're revealing it. So now we've got to give ten thousand Rand to Mister Sam Nyoma's mother in... Now, how do you do that? You send a courier with the money. Who pays for this? The police? With a police card? And you give him subsistence to like... Or do you send someone to rent a car and pretend he's someone else with this money and to crop up at night at this house and without saying anything and says: "You know there's this money for you." You understand it was a very difficult problem that eventually I approached in South Africa the Treasury about, you know to give us guidelines. How much do...this man is working for the police he gets a salary. Now Craig Williamson says: "Give the courier a thousand Rand." The regulations for the police say you can't give a man a thousand Rand as a present. What do you do with this money now? You understand you're always in a difficult problematical situation. That's why I say that this... in this process there were very many difficult situations that arose: you've got to buy a property, you've got to buy a thousand watches. How do you do it? Do you do it with South African money or do you do it | + | : "It's the police, we're investigating" |
+ | |||
+ | because then we're revealing it. | ||
+ | |||
+ | So now we've got to give ten thousand Rand to Mister Sam Nyoma's mother in ... | ||
+ | |||
+ | Now, how do you do that? You send a courier with the money. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Who pays for this? The police? With a police card? And you give him subsistence to like ... | ||
+ | |||
+ | Or do you send someone to rent a car and pretend he's someone else with this money and to crop up at night at this house and without saying anything and says: | ||
+ | : "You know there's this money for you." | ||
+ | |||
+ | You understand it was a very difficult problem that eventually I approached in South Africa the Treasury about, you know to give us guidelines. | ||
+ | |||
+ | How much do ... this man is working for the police he gets a salary. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Now [[Craig Williamson]] says: | ||
+ | : "Give the courier a thousand Rand." | ||
+ | |||
+ | The regulations for the police say you can't give a man a thousand Rand as a present. | ||
+ | |||
+ | What do you do with this money now? | ||
+ | |||
+ | You understand you're always in a difficult problematical situation. | ||
+ | |||
+ | That's why I say that this ... in this process there were very many difficult situations that arose: you've got to buy a property, you've got to buy a thousand watches. | ||
+ | |||
+ | How do you do it? Do you do it with South African money or do you do it |
Nuvarande version från 18 augusti 2024 kl. 10.36
- - 9 (32) -
Johann Coetzee: business concerns and so on, but in many cases we never knew exactly how there.
Another matter that we never solved was: when Craig Williamson came to South Africa, or Africa actually, and we could meet him, he gave us money in cash: brand new South African ten-Rand notes, brand new.
How they got it in Europe and from what source they got it in Europe, we could never find out. That was one thing that was baffling us.
We tried to, because it was handed, they had a treasurer also there, it was just handed to Craig Williamson in cash:
- "There's ten thousand for your South African operation."
There's that. That is the one problem that we could never solve.
The other problem that was a difficult problem to solve in South Africa is: you are now, you've created an organisation that's supposed to underpin Craig Williamson's activities.
Now for instance, I think to give you an example gives you a better, as a prosecutor. They'd say:
- "We must give ten thousand Rand to Mister Sam Nyoma's mother."
You know they were also in contact with SWAPO in Namibia.
- "Go and give her this ten thousand Rand."
Now it comes in cash or through this conduit that we don't know who deposited this in our account.
We had the banks on our side: we eventually went to the senior people of the banks and said:
- "But you must tell us where the money comes from."
And they said, well they can't: it's overseas transfers, basically overseas transfers, we don't know.
It's from Barclay's Bank in London, it's from Deutsche Bank in Germany and so on. So we're stuck with this problem.
And we couldn't go and investigate and say:
- "It's the police, we're investigating"
because then we're revealing it.
So now we've got to give ten thousand Rand to Mister Sam Nyoma's mother in ...
Now, how do you do that? You send a courier with the money.
Who pays for this? The police? With a police card? And you give him subsistence to like ...
Or do you send someone to rent a car and pretend he's someone else with this money and to crop up at night at this house and without saying anything and says:
- "You know there's this money for you."
You understand it was a very difficult problem that eventually I approached in South Africa the Treasury about, you know to give us guidelines.
How much do ... this man is working for the police he gets a salary.
Now Craig Williamson says:
- "Give the courier a thousand Rand."
The regulations for the police say you can't give a man a thousand Rand as a present.
What do you do with this money now?
You understand you're always in a difficult problematical situation.
That's why I say that this ... in this process there were very many difficult situations that arose: you've got to buy a property, you've got to buy a thousand watches.
How do you do it? Do you do it with South African money or do you do it