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- BT 17836 HBK
1 (19)
Pere
This is the record of the interrogation of14920 HB 17 666
0176.76 AB 17681 7817684 HBC 17741 148117830 it bo i6og HBT 17837 Z 8966
interrogation is being held on Tuesday 15 October 1996, commencing at 11.45 on the premises of he Swedish Embassy in Pretoria.
Leading the interrogation is Detective Superintendent Hans Ölvebro. Also present is Chief Prosecutor Jan Danielsson and Mister White's lawyer: Dairmuid Short.
Tomm .
White is being interrogated because he has been pointed out by the mass media as the murderer of Olof Palme during the furore that has taken place in the course of the last month.
Ö= Ölvebro D = Danielsson W = White S = Short
Ö:
Yes, Mister White, I will start with to ask you to give us a brief information of your own background: your military career and where you are born and so
On
W:
- BT 17836 HBK
1 (19)
Pere
This is the record of the interrogation of14920 HB 17 666
0176.76 AB 17681 7817684 HBC 17741 148117830 it bo i6og HBT 17837 Z 8966
interrogation is being held on Tuesday 15 October 1996, commencing at 11.45 on the premises of he Swedish Embassy in Pretoria.
Leading the interrogation is Detective Superintendent Hans Ölvebro. Also present is Chief Prosecutor Jan Danielsson and Mister White's lawyer: Dairmuid Short.
Tomm .
White is being interrogated because he has been pointed out by the mass media as the murderer of Olof Palme during the furore that has taken place in the course of the last month.
Ö= Ölvebro D = Danielsson W = White S = Short
Ö:
Yes, Mister White, I will start with to ask you to give us a brief information of your own background: your military career and where you are born and so
On
W:
(19)
W:
I met him some considerable time before that.
D:
Such as?
W:
About eighteen months, I presume. Eighteen months prior to that time.
D:
What kind of relation did you have to him then?
W:
It was purely on a casual friendship. Friendship is not the right word.
S:
Acquaintance.
W:
Acquaintance level. The affinity was serviceman to serviceman. That was basically the affinity.
D:
Did you say that the company Longreach was founded in April '86? Is that correct?
W:
That was when it was incorporated:
D:
Incorporated
W:
Yes.
D:
And before that? Had you had anything to do with Longreach before April '86?
W:
We had obviously had discussions in the formation of the company, but the company started to operate on or about the time of incorporation.
D:
There has been said that Longreach in fact was a cover-up for the security police in South Africa. What is your comment on that?
W:
Certainly in my involvement it was strictly commercial and it was overtly commercial. What happened to Longreach post my departure I cannot answer, because I had left South Africa. But during the period of time that I
(19)
W:
I met him some considerable time before that.
D:
Such as?
W:
About eighteen months, I presume. Eighteen months prior to that time.
D:
What kind of relation did you have to him then?
W:
It was purely on a casual friendship. Friendship is not the right word.
S:
Acquaintance.
W:
Acquaintance level. The affinity was serviceman to serviceman. That was basically the affinity.
D:
Did you say that the company Longreach was founded in April '86? Is that correct?
W:
That was when it was incorporated:
D:
Incorporated
W:
Yes.
D:
And before that? Had you had anything to do with Longreach before April '86?
W:
We had obviously had discussions in the formation of the company, but the company started to operate on or about the time of incorporation.
D:
There has been said that Longreach in fact was a cover-up for the security police in South Africa. What is your comment on that?
W:
Certainly in my involvement it was strictly commercial and it was overtly commercial. What happened to Longreach post my departure I cannot answer, because I had left South Africa. But during the period of time that I
(19)
was there certainly there was no...no military. or police influence at all during that period. It was risk analysis.
D:
Has Mister Williamson at any occasion made any sort of hint that he could have some knowledge about the murder of Olof Palme?
W:
No Sir.
D:
Has he ever spoken to you about the matter? Have you discussed the murder in any sense?
W:
I've never discussed the murder with Craig Williamson in any form or at any time.
D:
Thank you.
Ö:
You said that you went back to your training when you left...
W:
Trading
S:
Trading
Ö:
Trading. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm... yes.W:
noÖ: Can you tell us more about it?
W:S:
Sorry. Just identify the time please now. We're talking about April '86 or...?
W:med upptagningen under några sekunder)...( tekniska problem
(19)
was there certainly there was no...no military. or police influence at all during that period. It was risk analysis.
D:
Has Mister Williamson at any occasion made any sort of hint that he could have some knowledge about the murder of Olof Palme?
W:
No Sir.
D:
Has he ever spoken to you about the matter? Have you discussed the murder in any sense?
W:
I've never discussed the murder with Craig Williamson in any form or at any time.
D:
Thank you.
Ö:
You said that you went back to your training when you left...
W:
Trading
S:
Trading
Ö:
Trading. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm... yes.W:
noÖ: Can you tell us more about it?
W:S:
Sorry. Just identify the time please now. We're talking about April '86 or...?
W:med upptagningen under några sekunder)...( tekniska problem
(19)
I have...I had maintained for a short period a casual acquaintance withbut it was very shallow and it was basically two individuals who would
pass each other in the street and have a cup of coffee. That is the limit of my knowledge of.
D:
I want to came back to your relation to Mister Williamson. At this time, or any other time, did Mister Williamson on any occasion, or did you otherwise know, tell you that he had been an undercover agent in Europe?
W:
Sir, that was not only well known, I personally knew that he had been a South African undercover agent in Europe. Yes Sir.
D:
When did you hear that the first time?
W:
First time I read it in the very wide coverage that it had in the South African media, and secondly...
D:
And when was that?
W:
Shortly after he was exposed.
D:
In the beginning of the Eighties?
W:
Yes. And because we became acquaintances, I obviously, out of interest, asked him about it and he said yes he had been an agent for the South African police in Europe, operating in Europe. And didn't elaborate further than that.
Ö:
You say you didn't discuss any of his operations.
W:
No Sir
Ö:. Is that name familiar?
W:
Yes, I do knowI knew as a very casual acquaintance, directly as a result of the introduction from Craig Williamson.
7741
(19)
I have...I had maintained for a short period a casual acquaintance withbut it was very shallow and it was basically two individuals who would
pass each other in the street and have a cup of coffee. That is the limit of my knowledge of.
D:
I want to came back to your relation to Mister Williamson. At this time, or any other time, did Mister Williamson on any occasion, or did you otherwise know, tell you that he had been an undercover agent in Europe?
W:
Sir, that was not only well known, I personally knew that he had been a South African undercover agent in Europe. Yes Sir.
D:
When did you hear that the first time?
W:
First time I read it in the very wide coverage that it had in the South African media, and secondly...
D:
And when was that?
W:
Shortly after he was exposed.
D:
In the beginning of the Eighties?
W:
Yes. And because we became acquaintances, I obviously, out of interest, asked him about it and he said yes he had been an agent for the South African police in Europe, operating in Europe. And didn't elaborate further than that.
Ö:
You say you didn't discuss any of his operations.
W:
No Sir
Ö:. Is that name familiar?
W:
Yes, I do knowI knew as a very casual acquaintance, directly as a result of the introduction from Craig Williamson.
7741
(19)
Ö:
Well it's...maybe it's easier to ask you to tell us about those persons who have been in the media about this...when they pointed out you as the killer.
W:
Yes Sir.
Ö: If you can recall the names who has been in the media and tell us about who
and...
W:
I believe that the person...the person that first used my name publicly was
S:W:He was the first one that...
Yes. Do you know him?
W:
I've never met him, I've never spoken to him. Other than the brief photographs in the media, I don't honestly say I've ever seen him. Certainly not in the flesh.
Ö: And then...?
W:lon
17832
M.FLÖ:
Do you remember at what time this happened? I mean was it under that period when you were attached to Longreach?
Yes.
Ö:
Was it in the beginning or...?
W:
In the beginning, yes.
(19)
Ö:
Well it's...maybe it's easier to ask you to tell us about those persons who have been in the media about this...when they pointed out you as the killer.
W:
Yes Sir.
Ö: If you can recall the names who has been in the media and tell us about who
and...
W:
I believe that the person...the person that first used my name publicly was
S:W:He was the first one that...
Yes. Do you know him?
W:
I've never met him, I've never spoken to him. Other than the brief photographs in the media, I don't honestly say I've ever seen him. Certainly not in the flesh.
Ö: And then...?
W:lon
17832
M.FLÖ:
Do you remember at what time this happened? I mean was it under that period when you were attached to Longreach?
Yes.
Ö:
Was it in the beginning or...?
W:
In the beginning, yes.
(19)
Ö:
And you've met him several times during your...when you were working in this company?
W:
Yes.
Ö:
Did he tell you what he was doing...was working with?
W:
I knew that he was a serving policeman. Yes Sir. I'm sorry, he did not tell me. I knew he was a serving policeman.
Ö:
But what did he tell you about his occupation?
W:
Nothing at all. We did not reach that level of communication.
Ö:
Okay. And the next name, if you'll go on in this.Is there any more persons connected to this mass media affair?
W:I believe he was mentioned. He was a fellow director from the onset of Longreach. He was a British...he was a former British serving soldier and he was one of the risk analysis...risk analysis people.
Ö:
Did you work together with him then?
W:
I worked together, yes.
Ö:
Any more names? No persons?
W:
Not that I can... It wascertain statements: apparently to this embassy.who made
S:
Williamson
W:
Williamson
S:
Who is...
(19)
Ö:
And you've met him several times during your...when you were working in this company?
W:
Yes.
Ö:
Did he tell you what he was doing...was working with?
W:
I knew that he was a serving policeman. Yes Sir. I'm sorry, he did not tell me. I knew he was a serving policeman.
Ö:
But what did he tell you about his occupation?
W:
Nothing at all. We did not reach that level of communication.
Ö:
Okay. And the next name, if you'll go on in this.Is there any more persons connected to this mass media affair?
W:I believe he was mentioned. He was a fellow director from the onset of Longreach. He was a British...he was a former British serving soldier and he was one of the risk analysis...risk analysis people.
Ö:
Did you work together with him then?
W:
I worked together, yes.
Ö:
Any more names? No persons?
W:
Not that I can... It wascertain statements: apparently to this embassy.who made
S:
Williamson
W:
Williamson
S:
Who is...
(19)
W:who...I think he made some statements about he enjoyed having a number of good lunches with Longreach. That is all. AndÖ:
Well I will put...come back to Swedes. If you now can remember that you have met any Swede when you were working with Craig Williamson.
W:
This...that chapyes?
Ö:
Yeah.
W:
He was... he was...as I said I don't know, I can't be specific and say he was a Swede...
Ö:
But Scandinavian.
W:
He was Scandinavian. Yes Sir. And even then I can't say that he was Scandinavian. I was told he was Scandinavian. But he spoke with a South African/Rhodesian/English-speaking accent. And he was employed also as a bag carrier, a guard, a close protection person at that time. But for a very short period of time and I certainly didn't get to know him as a friend. I knew him as someone that was working for the...and I don't even know, I'll be quite honest, I don't know if he was working for the company or he was on a contract to the company as a consultant. I was not involved in the administrative side.
Ö:
Do you have any questions?
D:
Yes please. As you certainly know,, I think, andhave both stated that you were the one who pulled the trigger when Olof Palme was killed.
S:
I'm sorry, can I just correct that? Thatstated that.said that he had been told by. Ididn't make that as a categorical statement.
D:
Do you yourself have any explanation to that fact that they point you out? What's the explanation, as far as you understand?
(19)
W:who...I think he made some statements about he enjoyed having a number of good lunches with Longreach. That is all. AndÖ:
Well I will put...come back to Swedes. If you now can remember that you have met any Swede when you were working with Craig Williamson.
W:
This...that chapyes?
Ö:
Yeah.
W:
He was... he was...as I said I don't know, I can't be specific and say he was a Swede...
Ö:
But Scandinavian.
W:
He was Scandinavian. Yes Sir. And even then I can't say that he was Scandinavian. I was told he was Scandinavian. But he spoke with a South African/Rhodesian/English-speaking accent. And he was employed also as a bag carrier, a guard, a close protection person at that time. But for a very short period of time and I certainly didn't get to know him as a friend. I knew him as someone that was working for the...and I don't even know, I'll be quite honest, I don't know if he was working for the company or he was on a contract to the company as a consultant. I was not involved in the administrative side.
Ö:
Do you have any questions?
D:
Yes please. As you certainly know,, I think, andhave both stated that you were the one who pulled the trigger when Olof Palme was killed.
S:
I'm sorry, can I just correct that? Thatstated that.said that he had been told by. Ididn't make that as a categorical statement.
D:
Do you yourself have any explanation to that fact that they point you out? What's the explanation, as far as you understand?
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W:
I can only presume that it's for some sort of self-gratification, some sort of...to get in the limelight or in mitigation in the case of|I have got absolutely no idea. The statement or the finger-pointing came as a total shock to me.
D:
You have certainly heard of the...of a place named Vlakplaas.
W:
Yes Sir.
D:
Have you ever been there yourself?
W:
Yes Sir.
D:
Can you tell us when that was and under which circumstances?
W:
un
Certainly. I went there on a number of occasions to see...I think he's... I think he's a colonel now.of the wildlife endangered species protection unit. And that was last year and the beginning of this year. Just prior to the facility being closed down. That is...that has been my total limit of my visitations to Vlakplaas.
D:
Your first visit then last year?
W:
Yes. And I'm surecan verify those facts.Ö:
Well then I will ask you some other names:It's also a Scandinavian name.
lomtu
16609
W:S:
Have you met him?
W:
I don't know whether it was, but I met one of them, because they were all... I think they were together in some business.
(19)
W:
I can only presume that it's for some sort of self-gratification, some sort of...to get in the limelight or in mitigation in the case of|I have got absolutely no idea. The statement or the finger-pointing came as a total shock to me.
D:
You have certainly heard of the...of a place named Vlakplaas.
W:
Yes Sir.
D:
Have you ever been there yourself?
W:
Yes Sir.
D:
Can you tell us when that was and under which circumstances?
W:
un
Certainly. I went there on a number of occasions to see...I think he's... I think he's a colonel now.of the wildlife endangered species protection unit. And that was last year and the beginning of this year. Just prior to the facility being closed down. That is...that has been my total limit of my visitations to Vlakplaas.
D:
Your first visit then last year?
W:
Yes. And I'm surecan verify those facts.Ö:
Well then I will ask you some other names:It's also a Scandinavian name.
lomtu
16609
W:S:
Have you met him?
W:
I don't know whether it was, but I met one of them, because they were all... I think they were together in some business.
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S:
(Inaudible).
W:
I beg yours?
S:W:te
Ö:
And you said, if I understand you right,. Was it the name you said?
W:S:
Sorry. Could you spell the name of the person that you are interested in?
Ö:
Yeah, I can write it down or...
D:S:D:
Yeah.
Ö:W:
I beg yours?
Ö:S:D:w:
No. I didn't... Can you just say the? No, sorry. We are talking about a different individual.
(19)
S:
(Inaudible).
W:
I beg yours?
S:W:te
Ö:
And you said, if I understand you right,. Was it the name you said?
W:S:
Sorry. Could you spell the name of the person that you are interested in?
Ö:
Yeah, I can write it down or...
D:S:D:
Yeah.
Ö:W:
I beg yours?
Ö:S:D:w:
No. I didn't... Can you just say the? No, sorry. We are talking about a different individual.
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Ö:
Yeah.
W:
There wasare the people I'm getting confused with. Now that man I do not know..
Porn Ö
No.16609 17746
W:...?
Ö:W:
I do not know that individual.
Ö:
Okay. That's the name I have. So...does the Prosecutor have any questions?
D:
Well, I must ask you anyhow, do you yourself have any idea of your own of who could have planned and carried out the murder of Olof Palme, if it were a South African connection? Do you have any theory of yourself?
W:
Sir, I have no theory at all.
D:
If there were a South African link, who would, according to your experience, be capable of carrying it out?
S:
That's really speculation.
D:
Yes.
S:
And I don't think you can answer that.
W:
I wouldn't know.
D:
Is there anything you want to add yourself that you think could be of interest to us in this matter?
W:
I know so little about it, I can add nothing.
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Ö:
Yeah.
W:
There wasare the people I'm getting confused with. Now that man I do not know..
Porn Ö
No.16609 17746
W:...?
Ö:W:
I do not know that individual.
Ö:
Okay. That's the name I have. So...does the Prosecutor have any questions?
D:
Well, I must ask you anyhow, do you yourself have any idea of your own of who could have planned and carried out the murder of Olof Palme, if it were a South African connection? Do you have any theory of yourself?
W:
Sir, I have no theory at all.
D:
If there were a South African link, who would, according to your experience, be capable of carrying it out?
S:
That's really speculation.
D:
Yes.
S:
And I don't think you can answer that.
W:
I wouldn't know.
D:
Is there anything you want to add yourself that you think could be of interest to us in this matter?
W:
I know so little about it, I can add nothing.
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D:
Mister Short, do you have any questions?
S:
No.
Ö:
No, I don't have.
D:
Shall we stop there? Concluded at 12.35.
Ö:
And do you want to listen through this tape?
S:
I don't think it's necessary, but we can see a transcript in due course and offer comments.
Ö:
Okay.
D:
I have a few other questions. In the beginning you named...you mentioned two cities that you were born in.
W:D;
That is not my point. Can you spell it to us?
W:
I beg your pardon. Yes.D:
And the other city? |W:END OF TAPE
Home
duelan
(19)
D:
Mister Short, do you have any questions?
S:
No.
Ö:
No, I don't have.
D:
Shall we stop there? Concluded at 12.35.
Ö:
And do you want to listen through this tape?
S:
I don't think it's necessary, but we can see a transcript in due course and offer comments.
Ö:
Okay.
D:
I have a few other questions. In the beginning you named...you mentioned two cities that you were born in.
W:D;
That is not my point. Can you spell it to us?
W:
I beg your pardon. Yes.D:
And the other city? |W:END OF TAPE
Home
duelan
(19)D:
When was that?
W:11
Ö:
Okay. During your occupation in different countries have you ever met any Swedes?
W:
I'm sure I have met Swedes, certainly in Beira. I've met many Swedes, because in Beira there is a fairly big Swedish expatriate community. The only other Swede, and I don't know whether he was a Swede or Norwegian, was a chap that I met in Johannesburg, a chap by the name of Jensen. All I knew he was a Scandinavian. It's very difficult for us to distinguish.
Porn
Kwa Aaron
16409
Ö:
Do you know any first name from this?
W:
No, I just...just Jensen.
Ö:
Yes. When was that?
W:
I would say that probably, bearing in mind that having travelled, I've sort of lost track of time, other than what my passport gives me. That must have been in '75.
(19)D:
When was that?
W:11
Ö:
Okay. During your occupation in different countries have you ever met any Swedes?
W:
I'm sure I have met Swedes, certainly in Beira. I've met many Swedes, because in Beira there is a fairly big Swedish expatriate community. The only other Swede, and I don't know whether he was a Swede or Norwegian, was a chap that I met in Johannesburg, a chap by the name of Jensen. All I knew he was a Scandinavian. It's very difficult for us to distinguish.
Porn
Kwa Aaron
16409
Ö:
Do you know any first name from this?
W:
No, I just...just Jensen.
Ö:
Yes. When was that?
W:
I would say that probably, bearing in mind that having travelled, I've sort of lost track of time, other than what my passport gives me. That must have been in '75.
(19)
Ö:
'75.
W:
Or there roundabout.
Ö:
Well, I have to ask you another question about Swedes. Do you know any Swedish policemen?
W: No. Certainly not. I do not know any Swedish policemen.
Ö:
Have you...I mean you don't know but have you met any? Have you heard about that there have been Swedish policemen here down in South Africa?
W:
No.
Ö:
Never?
S:
Sorry, can I just clarify that? I think what Mister White is saying is that if he did meet a Swedish policeman, he didn't know he was a policeman
Ö:
No.
S:
Thank you.
Ö: . Of course. I understand. Do you, Prosecutor, have any question?
D:
Yes please. Can you state in which countries you have been, let us say from 1985 and forward? When you have visited a separate country.
W:
Certainly. I visited the United States, United Kingdom.
D:
Can you tell us the periods as well?
W:
I would...I...
D:
Roughly.
W:
I would have to look in my passport.
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Ö:
'75.
W:
Or there roundabout.
Ö:
Well, I have to ask you another question about Swedes. Do you know any Swedish policemen?
W: No. Certainly not. I do not know any Swedish policemen.
Ö:
Have you...I mean you don't know but have you met any? Have you heard about that there have been Swedish policemen here down in South Africa?
W:
No.
Ö:
Never?
S:
Sorry, can I just clarify that? I think what Mister White is saying is that if he did meet a Swedish policeman, he didn't know he was a policeman
Ö:
No.
S:
Thank you.
Ö: . Of course. I understand. Do you, Prosecutor, have any question?
D:
Yes please. Can you state in which countries you have been, let us say from 1985 and forward? When you have visited a separate country.
W:
Certainly. I visited the United States, United Kingdom.
D:
Can you tell us the periods as well?
W:
I would...I...
D:
Roughly.
W:
I would have to look in my passport.
(19)
S:
Can we short-circuit this? Are you happy to give them a photocopy of your passports?
W:
Certainly
S:
Do you have it with you?
W:
My wife has it, yes. My...that is my passports that have expired.
Ö:
Yeah.
W:
Yes. United States, United Kingdom, Germany, Holland. Those are about the European countries I've been. In terms of Africa: The Seychelles, Mauritius, Kenya, Uganda, Burundi, Rwanda, Zaire, Central African Republic, Tanzania, Zambia, Malawi, Zimbabwe and South Africa.
D:
Just for the record: that means you have never visited Sweden.
W:
I've never visited Sweden.
D:
Or any other Scandinavian country?
W:
That is correct.
.
D:
Have you heard of a person called Bertil Wedin, a Swedish citizen?
W:
Say it.
D:
Bertil Wedin.
W:
I've never heard that name before.
D:
I can spell it for you. His first name: B-e-r-t-i-1 W-e-d-i-n.
W:
I've never heard of that name before.
D:
Thank you.
(19)
S:
Can we short-circuit this? Are you happy to give them a photocopy of your passports?
W:
Certainly
S:
Do you have it with you?
W:
My wife has it, yes. My...that is my passports that have expired.
Ö:
Yeah.
W:
Yes. United States, United Kingdom, Germany, Holland. Those are about the European countries I've been. In terms of Africa: The Seychelles, Mauritius, Kenya, Uganda, Burundi, Rwanda, Zaire, Central African Republic, Tanzania, Zambia, Malawi, Zimbabwe and South Africa.
D:
Just for the record: that means you have never visited Sweden.
W:
I've never visited Sweden.
D:
Or any other Scandinavian country?
W:
That is correct.
.
D:
Have you heard of a person called Bertil Wedin, a Swedish citizen?
W:
Say it.
D:
Bertil Wedin.
W:
I've never heard that name before.
D:
I can spell it for you. His first name: B-e-r-t-i-1 W-e-d-i-n.
W:
I've never heard of that name before.
D:
Thank you.
(19)
Ö:
Okay. Then I will ask you if you have any knowledge about the murder of Mister Olof Palme. I mean, if you by newspapers were aware that the Swedish prime minister was shot or in 1986.
W:
My knowledge is restricted entirely to the newspaper coverage, the media coverage at that time.
Ö: At that time too, when he was killed?
W:
I'm sure, you know.
Ö:
Yeah.
W:
It was international.
Ö:
Yeah.
W:
It was internationally reported. I can't specifically remember the incident or the time, but one must presume that I heard it on the television or saw it in the newspapers.
Ö:
Yes. Can you tell us where you were in February and March 1986? Do you remember that?
W:
I cannot remember specifically, but from the analysis of my passport, passports, I would say that I was in South Africa at that time, yes.
Ö:
What we want is to establish the...some kind of alibi or...so if you can verify where you were, it's very good for us.
W:
It's an extremely difficult thing to do and it would need some time, but what we are doing is processing all the entry and exit stamps in iny passport, and from that, during the...on the day or the...of the period, prior post the killing of your prime minister, the indications are that I was in South Africa. In Beira it was extremely difficult to communicate to South Africa over this period because of the...our satellite dish got run off its rails in Beira. So I'm...at the present moment I'm trying to establish exactly where I was and
(19)
Ö:
Okay. Then I will ask you if you have any knowledge about the murder of Mister Olof Palme. I mean, if you by newspapers were aware that the Swedish prime minister was shot or in 1986.
W:
My knowledge is restricted entirely to the newspaper coverage, the media coverage at that time.
Ö: At that time too, when he was killed?
W:
I'm sure, you know.
Ö:
Yeah.
W:
It was international.
Ö:
Yeah.
W:
It was internationally reported. I can't specifically remember the incident or the time, but one must presume that I heard it on the television or saw it in the newspapers.
Ö:
Yes. Can you tell us where you were in February and March 1986? Do you remember that?
W:
I cannot remember specifically, but from the analysis of my passport, passports, I would say that I was in South Africa at that time, yes.
Ö:
What we want is to establish the...some kind of alibi or...so if you can verify where you were, it's very good for us.
W:
It's an extremely difficult thing to do and it would need some time, but what we are doing is processing all the entry and exit stamps in iny passport, and from that, during the...on the day or the...of the period, prior post the killing of your prime minister, the indications are that I was in South Africa. In Beira it was extremely difficult to communicate to South Africa over this period because of the...our satellite dish got run off its rails in Beira. So I'm...at the present moment I'm trying to establish exactly where I was and
(19)
what I was doing, but the indications are that I was in South Africa and in due course, through Mister Short, I'll let you know precisely where I was.
Ö:
Do you write diaries or...?
W:
Unfortunately not, no.
Ö:
And you don't...I mean in your office often you have a book. You make notes where you are.
W:
I've never been in the habit of keeping a diary.
Ö:
Do you think your wife will have any information about where you may be?
W:
We are working on the project together, and please be assured, we will be able to provide you with the information to that question.
Ö:
Okay. Do you have any questions?
D:
You said that you must have heard about the murder of Olof Palme through the media when it happened. Have you since then ever been in contact with any person who has claimed that he or she has had any knowledge about the murder, how it was planned or carried out and things like that?
W:
Mister Danielsson, the only...first time I heard about Mister Palme's murder subsequent to the media, the initial media coverage, was on Sunday two weeks ago, or three weeks ago, when I was fingered as a suspect. Other than that I have got no knowledge, I've had no conversation or had any connection with anybody that was even vaguely connected to that particular incident.
D:
As you are certainly aware of: recently many people have stepped forward here in South Africa and said that one people or another is likely to have been involved in one way or another. And names have been dropped as you know.
W:
Yes.
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what I was doing, but the indications are that I was in South Africa and in due course, through Mister Short, I'll let you know precisely where I was.
Ö:
Do you write diaries or...?
W:
Unfortunately not, no.
Ö:
And you don't...I mean in your office often you have a book. You make notes where you are.
W:
I've never been in the habit of keeping a diary.
Ö:
Do you think your wife will have any information about where you may be?
W:
We are working on the project together, and please be assured, we will be able to provide you with the information to that question.
Ö:
Okay. Do you have any questions?
D:
You said that you must have heard about the murder of Olof Palme through the media when it happened. Have you since then ever been in contact with any person who has claimed that he or she has had any knowledge about the murder, how it was planned or carried out and things like that?
W:
Mister Danielsson, the only...first time I heard about Mister Palme's murder subsequent to the media, the initial media coverage, was on Sunday two weeks ago, or three weeks ago, when I was fingered as a suspect. Other than that I have got no knowledge, I've had no conversation or had any connection with anybody that was even vaguely connected to that particular incident.
D:
As you are certainly aware of: recently many people have stepped forward here in South Africa and said that one people or another is likely to have been involved in one way or another. And names have been dropped as you know.
W:
Yes.
(19)
D:
Allegations have been made and so on. But you have never spoken to any person here in South Africa or elsewhere in Africa who has claimed to have any sort of information concerning the murder until recently?
W:
Mister Danielsson, at the risk of repeating myself: the very first time that I had any further knowledge or discussion about that incident, post the media coverage, was when my daughter phoned me and said there was some article in the South African paper. So no.
S:
Can I just clarify something?
D:
Please.
S:
Was your question in relation to before the allegations appeared in the South African newspapers? or since those allegations appeared has Mister White spoken to anybody who professes to have any knowledge of this assassination?
D:
Before.
S:
Before.
W:
The answer's no.
D:
Okay. Have you been approached in this question since it was brought in the open lately? Has anyone approached you and said: "I have information about the murder"? "I committed it or some other did."
W:
The answer is no.
Ö:
Shall we move on to the names?
W:
Excuse me, I'd just like to clarify: Other than what I've read or heard in the press and in the media.
Ö:
Or a journalist told you or you've been interviewed and...
(19)
D:
Allegations have been made and so on. But you have never spoken to any person here in South Africa or elsewhere in Africa who has claimed to have any sort of information concerning the murder until recently?
W:
Mister Danielsson, at the risk of repeating myself: the very first time that I had any further knowledge or discussion about that incident, post the media coverage, was when my daughter phoned me and said there was some article in the South African paper. So no.
S:
Can I just clarify something?
D:
Please.
S:
Was your question in relation to before the allegations appeared in the South African newspapers? or since those allegations appeared has Mister White spoken to anybody who professes to have any knowledge of this assassination?
D:
Before.
S:
Before.
W:
The answer's no.
D:
Okay. Have you been approached in this question since it was brought in the open lately? Has anyone approached you and said: "I have information about the murder"? "I committed it or some other did."
W:
The answer is no.
Ö:
Shall we move on to the names?
W:
Excuse me, I'd just like to clarify: Other than what I've read or heard in the press and in the media.
Ö:
Or a journalist told you or you've been interviewed and...
(19)
W:
Yeah or no what I read that someone has said that this individual is involved or is not involved. Of course I've read that, but I've not been approached as an individual, on a one-on-one basis, telephonically or any other way relating to that particular incident.
D:
Okay. I would put the question more direct then: Do you have first or second-hand third-hand information of any kind concerning the murder of Olof Palme?
W:
No.
D:
Thank you.
Ö:
Shall we move on to the names? We are going to ask you if you know or have a relationship to some people. We'll start with Craig Williamson.
W:
Yes.
Ö:
Can you give us more information?
W:
We had a business relationship, from approximately April of 1986 to approximately November 1986, where I was a fellow director of a company called Longreach. That is the business relationship between Mister Williamson and myself.
S:
Can I just clarify or put certain things on record concerning Longreach?
D:
It is Mister Short speaking now.
S:
Do you want me to identify myself whenever I speak?
Ö:
No, it is all right.
S:
I have asked...the company is a company which was originally incorporated in Jersey in the Channel Islands. I've instructed a firm of solicitors there to get me the information concerning the company: exactly when it was incorporated, when there were changes in the office-bearers, shareholders etcetera of the company. Certain of that information I'm told may be
(19)
W:
Yeah or no what I read that someone has said that this individual is involved or is not involved. Of course I've read that, but I've not been approached as an individual, on a one-on-one basis, telephonically or any other way relating to that particular incident.
D:
Okay. I would put the question more direct then: Do you have first or second-hand third-hand information of any kind concerning the murder of Olof Palme?
W:
No.
D:
Thank you.
Ö:
Shall we move on to the names? We are going to ask you if you know or have a relationship to some people. We'll start with Craig Williamson.
W:
Yes.
Ö:
Can you give us more information?
W:
We had a business relationship, from approximately April of 1986 to approximately November 1986, where I was a fellow director of a company called Longreach. That is the business relationship between Mister Williamson and myself.
S:
Can I just clarify or put certain things on record concerning Longreach?
D:
It is Mister Short speaking now.
S:
Do you want me to identify myself whenever I speak?
Ö:
No, it is all right.
S:
I have asked...the company is a company which was originally incorporated in Jersey in the Channel Islands. I've instructed a firm of solicitors there to get me the information concerning the company: exactly when it was incorporated, when there were changes in the office-bearers, shareholders etcetera of the company. Certain of that information I'm told may be
(19)
regarded as confidential by the Jersey authorities and may not be disclosed to me. But the dates given by Mister White of April 1986 to November 1986 are his best estimates after ten years. The documents may show something different than what you may be able to...but the relationship, the business relationship was of short duration.
Ö:
Shall we ask him to elaborate? With respect to that contact... Is it possible to... that you can tell us more about this relationship with Mister Craig Williamson. What...what you were dealing with and...
W:
In Longreach?
Ö:
Yes. During that period of time.
W:
Longreach was a company that was formed specifically to look at risk analysis and other related activities, and principally we had one client at thatactivity. We...about November of 1986. Again those actual facts will be clarified once we...once we have them.
Ö:
The next name I will ask you about...
D:
Just a moment. Maybe I didn't listen well enough. Did you say that you met with Mister Williamson for the first time in April '86? Is that correct?
W:
That's it.
D:
When did you meet him for the first time?
(19)
regarded as confidential by the Jersey authorities and may not be disclosed to me. But the dates given by Mister White of April 1986 to November 1986 are his best estimates after ten years. The documents may show something different than what you may be able to...but the relationship, the business relationship was of short duration.
Ö:
Shall we ask him to elaborate? With respect to that contact... Is it possible to... that you can tell us more about this relationship with Mister Craig Williamson. What...what you were dealing with and...
W:
In Longreach?
Ö:
Yes. During that period of time.
W:
Longreach was a company that was formed specifically to look at risk analysis and other related activities, and principally we had one client at thatactivity. We...about November of 1986. Again those actual facts will be clarified once we...once we have them.
Ö:
The next name I will ask you about...
D:
Just a moment. Maybe I didn't listen well enough. Did you say that you met with Mister Williamson for the first time in April '86? Is that correct?
W:
That's it.
D:
When did you meet him for the first time?
