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Johann Coetzee: you recruited also? Not? You're not a good policeman I suppose. There they recruited, so it's not strange and there are always allegations, so I mean whether he joined a thing like that, I don't know, and the military, what I want is the military never approached me.

FHL Hans Ölvebro: Okay.

Johann Coetzee: There they never approached me and says: "Listen, you want to give a recommendation in secret or confidential?" They never approached me, so factually I don't know. I saw him once. Since then...

FHL Hans Ölvebro: You don't have any idea who could be his controller at that time?

Johann Coetzee: No, but it won't be difficult to find out who was in charge of military intelligence then.

J: Yeah, of course not.

Johann Coetzee: It would be possible to find out.

FHL Hans Ölvebro: Okay. Do you know any of those alias Mister Williamson used when he was in Europe? Can you tell? Do you remember?

Johann Coetzee: He was plain Williamson.

FHL Hans Ölvebro: He didn't use any...?

Johann Coetzee: I didn't ... he never ... you know he was well known everywhere as Craig Williamson. The papers that came back about the meetings that he'd been, you know that he's ... he would go for stance to an international conference in Africa, you understand, and now afterwards the minutes are forwarded ...

FHL Hans Ölvebro: I understand that he was Craig Williamson in this job, but when he went to meet you for instance and he went...

Johann Coetzee: He came as Craig Williamson.

FHL Hans Ölvebro: He was?